Government talk at Maischberger: Merz, AfD and the "variable variable Trump"

They usually argue in their own podcast, this time with Sandra Maischberger: As usual, Augstein and Blome discuss the new federal government, the fight against the AfD and the limited possibility of peace in Ukraine.

When they meet, things often get heated: Jakob Augstein, the publisher of the weekly newspaper "Freitag," and Nikolaus Blome, the political editor of ntv and RTL. Formerly on Phoenix, now in their own podcast, they manage to engage in intelligent debates about politics. On Monday evening, they meet at Sandra Maischberger's, who has to work very hard to steer the two journalists in the direction she wants. At least she's trying hard.

Augstein is an avowed SPD member. He revealed right at the beginning of their discussion that he voted against the coalition agreement. Blome found this irresponsible, he said. He, Augstein, was not convinced that the CDU-SPD coalition was a good fit for the SPD.

Without the SPD, there would have been no government, Blome argues. While the CDU would have had the AfD as a theoretical coalition partner, "that would have been the end of the CDU," Blome says. "You can want that, but I wouldn't consider it a very wise move. The CDU is the last people's party in the country, unlike the SPD, which has already messed that up."

"That's obviously not true," Augstein replies. The CDU isn't the only mainstream party in Germany. "The AfD is now a mainstream party, even if you and I might not like that. If they represent a fifth of the voters and two-thirds in the East, if that's not a mainstream party, then I don't really know the definition."

Blome adds that the AfD appeals to different milieus in West and East Germany. "In that respect, it is an East German people's party." The AfD's problem: "The AfD disqualifies itself as a people's party because it is not capable of forming a coalition." "Not yet," says Augstein. "But if Jens Spahn has further transformed the CDU, then the AfD will be very capable of forming a coalition." A prediction with which Augstein is hopefully wrong.

Augstein doesn't trust Merz

One thing can be said in Chancellor Friedrich Merz's favor: Hardly anyone can utter truisms with as much verve as he can. "The state is all of us," is one such example. Augstein and Blome wouldn't be who they are if they didn't also have different opinions about Merz. Augstein finds many things wrong with the new Chancellor, but not everything. The publisher praises him for having thanked Olaf Scholz. "We've reached the point where we have to point things out," he notes. And he says: "That was really good language."

"But it wasn't meant honestly," Blome says, dampening Augstein's good mood. "And everyone knows that. It looked good, decent. But times aren't like that anymore. Nobody believes what he said. And that's why I found it unnecessary."

Augstein appears briefly shaken, calls Blome a "professional cynic," but then criticizes: "I don't trust the Chancellor who swindled his way into office." If Merz were to shake his hand, he would check afterwards to see if he still had all his fingers, Augstein said. Of course, he wasn't serious.

However, as a self-proclaimed conservative, Blome can still find something positive about Merz. He doesn't see the government as a major ideological project, as he emphasized in his government statement. "I found it extremely promising to scale it back a bit and not come up with a grand vision, but rather to say: We want the state to function halfway again in the end – which it does in many parts, but also not in many parts, as we can see every day." The new government has a lot of money at its disposal, and this goal can be achieved with it. "And that's quite a lot."

But there's the issue of pensions, for example. Pensions urgently need to be reformed, but the government is putting this off, says Augstein. Blome admits: "When it comes to the welfare state, the reforms aren't going so well, because the new Social Affairs Minister, Bärbel Baas, is continuing exactly what Hubertus Heil did. She now has to wind down the citizen's income a bit, but when it comes to pensions and all the other welfare state reviews, which are even included in the coalition agreement, she's stonewalling and distracting." Blome can apparently imagine a reform of the pension system, toward fairer pensions.

When will the coalition end?

Journalists are a real pain. As soon as a government starts working, they start discussing when it will end. Augstein doesn't believe the black-red coalition will last a full four years. "I think it will have a hard time lasting longer than the traffic light coalition," he says. "If it lasts longer, it will only be because the SPD is scared to death and knows that if they get off this ship, the only thing waiting for them is the ocean floor."

"Then the fate of the FDP awaits them," Blome agrees. And he predicts: "In that respect, this government will hold out." However, a positive mood is important to bring the AfD down. Blome: "Let's assume for a second: There are some objective figures on migration, economic growth, or finances. Will people then stop voting for the AfD? That's the real experiment."

"I would completely agree with my colleague on the substance," Augstein replies. And he answers Blome's question: "I don't think so. I believe that this cultural change that has been initiated has already progressed so far that it's no longer an issue."

Praise for Merz's foreign policy

Merz has a lot to do as Chancellor, not only in Germany. He also faces difficult times in foreign policy. Blome praises the fact that the four "willing" Europeans have now joined forces and are speaking with one voice. "The crucial problem in the entire equation is the highly variable known as Donald Trump." Of course, Russian President Putin also plays an important role in the Ukraine war, according to the ntv political editor: "Ultimately, Vladimir Putin will have to decide at some point whether he wants to stop bombing children's hospitals. At least the war will end in a ceasefire."